S_E5 Brandon Deroche: Activism, Music, and the Drive for Change

In this episode, Brandon Deroche, a passionate advocate for social impact through music and culture. Brandon shares his journey from being a touring musician to founding Propeller, a platform that empowers artists to leverage their influence for meaningful causes. He reflects on the evolution of live music post-pandemic and the shifting dynamics of ticket sales, while also diving deep into the intersection of activism and entertainment.

Episode Highlights

• Brandon's Summer Experience: Brandon discusses how his summer was a blur filled with various music festivals and the significant impact of working with artist Chappell Roan.
• The Rise of Chappell Roan: He elaborates on Chappell’s meteoric rise in the music scene, breaking attendance records at major festivals and using her platform for LGBTQ advocacy.
• Shifts in Live Music Attendance: Brandon shares insights on how this summer marked a return to full live music experiences, contrasting it with the uncertainty of previous years.
• Ticket Buying Behavior Changes: He explores the new trends in ticket purchasing, where audiences are waiting until the last minute to buy tickets, impacting sales dynamics for promoters.
• Propeller’s Mission: Brandon explains how Propeller connects artists with causes they care about, using incentives to engage fans in social impact initiatives.
• Successful Campaigns: He highlights successful campaigns like Gojira’s environmental efforts and Allie & AJ’s support for the Trevor Project, showcasing how authenticity drives engagement.
• Psychedelics and Social Impact: Brandon discusses his belief in the connection between psychedelics and social change, sharing personal experiences that shaped his worldview.
• Navigating Political Landscapes: He reflects on how political climates influence artist activism and the challenges faced when addressing sensitive issues in today’s environment.

You can follow Brandon here.

Transcript

raad: [00:00:00] Today, it is my pleasure to have my good friend Brendan Daroche on the pod. Brendan, how you doing, man?

brendan: Not bad.

raad: Did I say your last name right? Okay,

brendan: You did.

raad: Cool. this, uh, this, this episode has been months in the making. summer tends to get really wild and crazy. So I apologize for the multiple rescheduling, but, we're here and now, and it's a pleasure to have you.

brendan: Yeah. Pleasure to be here. No worries.

raad: Let's start by, checking in. How was your summer? and I asked that not only because I don't know how your summer was, but also, busy time for music, culture, creativity, shows all that stuff all the world all the different worlds that you're involved in

brendan: Yeah, I think summer was good. I can't, it was such a blur. I can't, I feel like I can't keep track of time at all these days. And, if I had to piece it all together, I'm not sure I could, but I usually have some different, markers throughout the summer, which are different festivals that we're always a part of and, things like that helped me [00:01:00] compartmentalize things a bit.

brendan: And so for me, I think for me, For work, it was really the summer of Chappell Roan. So that was a big part of really the whole year, but especially summertime, which happy to talk more about

raad: What is that since we're on the topic.

brendan: Chappell Roan, which I assume you're familiar with who she is at this point.

raad: Dude, it's embarrassing to say I actually don't

brendan: Maybe that's a Canadian thing. I'm not sure, but that's, that's actually refreshing, Chappell Roan is an artist that has had a, rocket ship of a year. She's

raad: and I'm like, what is that oh it's a person okay. All right, that's how clueless I am. Yeah, sorry

brendan: that is her artist name, but she was like, the phenomenon of the year, I feel like the past couple of years we had like Zach Brian and Noah Kahn, these different artists that had these rocket ship, just, they might've been around for a bit, like in the case of Noah, but then just whatever reason, Tik Tok or something, just Blew up and, Chapel has been doing it for 10 years.

brendan: and this year, like we started working on her in February [00:02:00] and I didn't even really bat an eye at the partnership at that time. It was cool. But, after she did Coachella and then like right around that After that time she just started blowing up and she became like the headliner basically at every major festival Even though she was billed when she was billed.

brendan: She was like really low on the bills But she broke, you know like Lollapalooza's attendance records and all this for people watching her show and like you can You'll probably, I don't know if you're, your phone's probably listening to us. You'll go on Instagram and you'll see that like, we'll start getting served these festival crowd videos, which became a thing over the summer, all the festivals where they've shown like just the insane crowds that were showing up for performances.

brendan: And we partnered with her kind of like one campaign after another this year on Propeller. She was supporting LGBTQ rights. And, so we That partnership happened at the right place, right time for us and got to ride that wave with her and became a year that would broke all of our records just in terms of impact and participation in our campaigns and all of that because ofthe partnership we [00:03:00] have with Chapels.

brendan: definitely exciting to see that and very excited for her. And then also just how much she was able to do simple things, but really use her platform for all of it for something she cared about. And, fortunately did that through us with Propeller.

raad: There's this crazy, I think like, collision of worlds happening. It's been happening for a while, but I think we're hitting fever pitch, right? this convergence of activism, culture,and purpose, right? purpose, I say that, cynically in a way, because I think there's corpus, sorry, purpose in the professional world and in the corporate world.

raad: And then there's a purpose that people, regular day people, sorry, regular people feel in their day to day lives. We'll talk a little bit about this sort of convergence later on, but. In general, are you finding that this year people are really coming back to see shows, are really coming back seeking live experiences?

brendan: It, to me personally, it feels like the first year since the pandemic really ended, that we've lived a full [00:04:00] summer. Last year was still people like, is it over? I'm not really sure what's going on. Yeah, I mean, I think that it actually felt pretty good, but it was definitely like you're saying, I mean, it was a bit of a wave, from time to time, especially like for what we do, which involves a lot of artists meet and greets and things like that for a while. It was a great excuse for artists to not want to not have to do anything extra.

brendan: and these campaigns with us, I have to find things that didn't involve meeting them or what have you. which I also fully understand, like, you don't want to get COVID and have to cancel your tours or appearances or whatever. But, but this year we didn't, I can't think of any instances where that was.

brendan: A thing other than maybe some band members getting it and or whatever it might be where that impacted and isolate the ways but I'd say yes and no like I think that the flip of it is like when Concerts started happening. It was like such a demand for it And we've been working with red rocks for a few years now and like they used to do 60, I think 60 to 80 shows a season and now they do close to 200.

brendan: And S [00:05:00] and so like their whole calendar is just jam packed where it didn't used to be like that. And so there's a lot more tours that are happening. And for a while, I think a lot of those tours were just people wouldn't be out, once they could be. And, now it seems like it's ticket got ticket buying behavior has shifted a little bit.

brendan: And this also could just be like. Younger generations behavior, but people are waiting till the last minute to buy tickets typically other than like a Taylor Swift tour or something just knowing that they can and also maybe not sure what they want to do that day or whatever And so I think that's extremely stressful for promoters and the artists and stuff.

brendan: And so you're seeing tours that Got booked and then they get canceled and sometimes they have excuses as to why but I think most of the time just because it's not selling and even if maybe it would start selling and it's too much panic, so they gotta pull out and so I think there's a bit of that happening.

brendan: It's like you're seeing some of the biggest shows and attendance numbers ever. And then you're also seeing some of these things that people thought were surefire bets that are just not [00:06:00] performing in sales.

raad: You were saying there's a wide range.of not maybe not wide range, but there's extremes, right? there's There it is. There are tours that are being booked that are canceled last second because people aren't the ticket buying behavior has shifted But there's also people are going out and spending much more money than ever before and it feels like to me, I don't understand if there's a correlation between or maybe you know ticket buying behavior shifted, but it feels like to me artists Without the big ones, without offering a substantial amount more.

raad: Are charging insane ticket prices and it just feels to me that it's like the price gouging that i'm seeing For some of the biggest bands out there taylor swift included like coldplay and all these guys and like an oasis Fuck that i'm not paying five thousand dollars for you to hear wonderwall for the ticket price 15, 000 time, even though I like Oasis, like, what is actually happening?

raad: Why are, is the [00:07:00] production ballooning as well? Or is just the ticket prices that are like, they can so they do?

brendan: I think it's all of that. And I think it depends on who you're asking as well, because, some people will say it ultimately comes down to the artists and the artists would never admit that most things get blamed on the ticketing fees, and I think that, I'm not an expert on ticketing by any means, but I think that there's, there's definitely both.

brendan: Things that could be at play where the artists are demanding a lot of money and the promoters seem like it would be a, credible return potentially, but it turns out it's not as much as in some instances. And, and so the ticket prices go up and the fans are the ones that end up paying for it.

brendan: There's also scalpers and all the other stuff they got to deal with, bots and stuff. And just a lot of challenges in that space.

raad: Did you guys do Red Rocks this year?

brendan: We did. Yeah. We were at almost every Red Rock show.

raad: So

brendan: I personally was not at many of them, so I didn't really get to see very much myself, but, the team was there.

raad: you have the luxury of not being at every one of your shows, given that you worked very hard to set up the [00:08:00] company. maybe this may be a good place to start introducing what Propeller is. Maybe tell us a little bit about what Propeller is, the history of it. And then what does a typical campaign look like?

raad: You mentioned, sorry, you'll have to, you'll have to say the artist's name one more time. I'm now a crusty millennial hosting a podcast. Yeah. So tell us a little bit of a propeller and then what it is a typical big campaign look like in this case, you said it took a year. It's a year in the making. Give us the mechanics of that.

brendan: Yeah, I'm happy to give you further background if you wanted on how propeller was came to be in the first place. But what propellers is a platform that helps artists and influencers and really anyone that has an audience. So it could be a brand or a festival or a venue. Leverage that audience for causes that they care about.

brendan: And it's all done by appealing to the self interest of those fans. And so typically if you're an artist, that's going to be something that's related to you as an artist, like getting the opportunity to meet them. earning their concert tickets, sign memorabilia [00:09:00] merchandise. We use all of those things as carrots or like as incentives to get people to pay attention, to click come and then take whatever action that we're trying to get them to take to support.

brendan: The causes that the artist wants to support. And a lot of times what that looks like is. We do a lot of sleep stakes currently and always have in our history. But the idea being that you can take action for a chance to win. The more actions you're taking, the more you can increase your chances of winning.

brendan: Chappell Roan was the artist that you were asking about. So Chappell, the idea of winning a trip to, to go to Bonnaroo. For example, and getting VIP passes and all expense paid trip to go and then meet chapel as well while you're there. And for her cause was LGBTQ rights. And so we partner with the human rights campaign and you're able to sign a petition, and, or make a donation or become a monthly donor or take these other actions that help you learn about the cause and support the cause.

brendan: And by doing so you're. increasing your chances of winning that trip. Ultimately the [00:10:00] winners selected at random, but you can increase your chances of winning. And those campaigns come together in all sorts of different ways, all sorts of different timeframes. And, so sometimes it's literally like a few days before.

brendan: a tour starts, we might get an opportunity. Sometimes it's, sometimes it's been talked about months in advance. And we know what's coming, but, but yeah, I mean, it's like, it's pretty complicated. I'm happy to go through any of the details that you want. I don't want it to be boring, but there's, it's, it looks all different ways.

brendan: But one thing I would say is that. The best campaigns that we do are ones that are authentically driven by the talent. So whenever the artist is really passionate about something, and like, they really want to go big with something, versus like, yeah, I'm happy to do it, it's a favor, or whatever, and I'll support the cause, but like, I'm not really gonna go all in, it's just like, We can do a meet and greet, I'll let you promote it on my channel, I'll promote it, all that stuff, but Versus someone that like, really gets behind it, and I just think that the fans can tell in those instances, It just [00:11:00] feels more genuine and comes through, and In those campaigns we tend to see, even with the smaller artists, like, Being able to make as much of an impact as a really big artist if they are really leaning

raad: Yep. we'll talk about the Genesis story of Propeller, later in the pod. but I'm curious what,it's interesting. The first time I might've mentioned this story to you. First time I heard of Propeller, I didn't really pay attention to the name, but I noticed something cool because, one of my favorite bands of all time is Gojira.

raad: And it was a few years ago, I think,they were, they, they frequently talk about, or they're like, environmental stewardship programs. They talk about the Amazon a lot, they talk about conservation a lot, and a campaign that they ran was for the guitar,signed by Joe Duplantier, which I fucking love, love, love that band.

raad: But the campaign, when I went to the page, it was really interesting. again, I didn't pay attention to the name, but then years later, when I met you, I'm like, Whoa, hold on. There's, I feel like I've seen this before. And sure enough, of course it was propeller. I say that because what's an example [00:12:00] of, let's say a super successful campaign and the cause related to that campaign and, why was it successful?

brendan: Let's talk about Gojira for a second because that was a very successful campaign and I had heard of Gojira. I didn't know that much about them and for those who don't know you, they're basically they're French. metal band. They're great, but it's not what you think would be, we work with like Justin Bieber or something.

brendan: You don't think Gojira is going to be this. Maybe you did as a fan, but, but that was an example where their label reached out, asked about doing this campaign. They said that band wanted to raise 75, 000. I'm like, all right, good luck, but we'll give it a shot. And, and, Meanwhile,

raad: is that too low or too high? Like, what's the average

brendan: I thought that was going to be high for them just because I, it's like this,

raad: Obscure,

brendan: Niche and yeah, and it just didn't, and, but that was an example where Joe personally reached out to all his friends and got them to participate in.

brendan: And so we had stuff from. Ghost and Metallica [00:13:00] and Guns N Roses and like, I can't even remember if that made a lot of different Artists participated and gave really great items. So versus them just signing a brand new guitar meaning like we're getting like,I forget I think it was like the drum that the Deftones drummer used on, I don't know if it's white pony one of their big albums like from a while ago and like handmade guitars and stuff.

brendan: And like Joe was, it was also really nerve wracking because Joe was like going through and being, analyzing propeller and being like, I don't like this. Airplane icon that you have. Can you change it to this? And like, one at all these little details changed. and then we did the campaign and they really dug into promoting, they made it part of the rollout of their music and, we're just a force for getting them out there.

brendan: And again, he was creating his own videos. We were not giving them scripts. It was just all driven by them for what they wanted to support. And so I think they ended up raising. 330 grand or something in that campaign, which, again, it was just super [00:14:00] impressive. And I like was blown away by, by how impactful it ended up being.

brendan: So that, that is a great example. another one we talk about often is Allie and AJ, they, We've been around a while. They were like, big in their teens. And then they, they had to come back. I had never heard of them. And, that was one where like, again, they wanted to support, I the Trevor project the first time.

brendan: And they had the idea. They want to say something from stage every night. And we did a call to action when they could text it and be able to just sign a petition and had the option of donating. And they did a quick meet and greet for the fans after every show. And they've now raised like hundreds of thousands of dollars with us.

brendan: And it's playing to. Anywhere from a thousand people to like 2, 500 people a night. a lot of tours we do are arenas or amphitheaters or stadiums sometimes, and sometimes they don't raise that much just because it's just a really simple thing, but because they actually like gave a heartfelt call to action that was genuine from stage and they had a really great prize that was involved in it.

brendan: they've been incredibly impactful [00:15:00] and more so than artists that are, in theory, you have 10 times the followers or whatever that they do.

raad: I'm sure we'll talk more about propeller and the Genesis story. before we get there, I want to take a detour. and this is gonna, this is gonna, this will open up, I think the core of the conversation and why I wanted to chat with you about is that I think when we, in our last call, you had stated that psychedelics underpins social impact and the culmination of your work in the last 15 years.

raad: Why do you feel that? Classic.

brendan: I mean, I think I, I got into psychedelics in high school as many of us did, and, I got really into it. I mean, it wasn't like abusive or anything like that, but to the point where I had, you know,black light posters all over my basement and my parents house and just like, all that kind of stuff.

brendan: And I did my high school term paper on electric chloride acid. test and, just like really played an impact on my life, but I always [00:16:00] treat it with respect. And it was not just to like go to a party or something like that. I mean, granted it was experimental. And so things like that did occur, but I definitely like saw the bigger point in all of it.

brendan: and. I was supposed to go to school for computer science. Instead, I joined a band, and we started, touring and all that, like, immediately after I graduated high school, and my bandmates had never done psychedelics, and they like, thought it was funny that I was interested in them, but eventually they tried them, and They had really life changing experiences.

brendan: they grew up like in pretty strict, Christian families and they were at a point where they weren't really sure what they believed anymore. And like, I think psychedelics has helped them see also like the bigger picture and all this, where like. They could take what was valid from their upbringing and what wasn't and separate it and figure out who they really were And it really impacted us then as a touring band where we were Not a big band, but we toured the u.

brendan: s in europe and in those instances like people would want to meet us or we do interviews and [00:17:00] all of that and it just felt like Even at a small level, you have an opportunity to use your platform for something bigger. And we really got hooked on that idea of like how music and how an artist has a platform and how you can do something really positive with that.

brendan: And so psychedelics I think helped us land in that place. And then eventually when I didn't think my band was gonna make it, I left the band to go pursue doing that work with established artists. And more or less just trying to be a cheerleader and make it easy for these artists to use their platform more.

brendan: Especially the ones that I knew were interested in that and finding effective ways that they could and so Somewhere along the lines there in my band days like another band we were touring with and my drummer were talking about They're talking about I guess like A way to describe it would be like how there are all these different avenues to God and they might not have used the word God but it was just saying like drumming for me is my spiritual practice and stuff and I'm like this is a big part of like what I believe in we're like where are you getting this [00:18:00] information from they told me about he told me about Ram Dass and that was the first time I had anyone like articulate these things that had percolated in my brain or things I thought I'd landed on in different psychedelic journeys along, along, like over the course of years.

brendan: And, and so I got really interested in Ram Dass and eventually like Eckhart Tolle and Alan Watson, these different teachers. And that really set me down the path of, caring about this intersection of social impact and, leveraging music and culture to help generate it.

raad: Did grow up, however, in a, conservative family, religiously conservative and politically conservative. I think you

brendan: Not so much religiously, but just politically,

raad: Politically. Okay. was it religious? Did you have a religious upbringing?

brendan: No, I mean, we were the type of family that, like, I went to Sunday school, I was raised Catholic, and we'd go to church on Christmas and Easter, but it was not, like, a big part of our identity other than [00:19:00] feeling like this is what you do, but it wasn't, like, beyond that. My, I think, Some of that stems from my mom's side and going to Catholic school and all of that, but it was not like my band mates who grew up with like their fathers and stuff were like mom's music pastor.

brendan: And like, they were very deep in that world. It was, pretty light on our side.

raad: What was, did you sense a sort of a intersection between, the semi religious, or at least let's say culturally religious, right? And the political orientation, right? And I'm not necessarily saying that being Republican is bad. I don't, I mean, I don't, frankly, I don't trust any politician. but what was that like?

raad: It's having that political orientation growing up. And then of course, I think psychedelics, these things, Tend to change you from your default. Again, doesn't mean you become a Democrat or a progressive. It just means that things tend to change as your political ideology changes. how did, how do you process your upbringing from that perspective?

brendan: I [00:20:00] think,on the political side of things, it wasn't highly talked about, like with my family, it was just assumed. I think that it was, I think that most of my town, I grew up in York, Pennsylvania, it's like a small central Pennsylvania town, and it's pretty conservative as a whole.

brendan: And so I think when you're in your own bubble, you don't really question things as much because it's just like, oh, that's what your friends and your friends parents and everyone else, that's what they subscribe to. And so I wasn't really like, It just didn't cross my mind very much. And, I think I started getting more interested in politics when we went to Europe for the first time as a band, because it was when Bush was in office and, we were, this is like 2003 and we're over in Europe and talking to different people in these countries and they would be like, you guys are cool, but.

brendan: Can I swear on here?

raad: of course. Please.

brendan: Were like, I was like, you guys are cool, but fuck your government, and I'd be like, wow, okay I didn't realize that people actually didn't like us. It just was, you know It's still [00:21:00] very early days of the internet and stuff that it just wasn't like we're on even on my space in those days and so Didn't really have a sense Too much of what else was, maybe I just wasn't paying attention, but didn't really have a sense of what all was going on.

brendan: And initially I think I still like subscribe that, like, the conservative or the Republican side is still like part of what I'm affiliated with. And so even when I would see some artists that were like, Supporting John Kerry and stuff at the time I was like, Oh, that's interesting.

brendan: And it's, but I wasn't really that invested in all of it. It just, I think there's a lot of processing to figure out like why people didn't like us or our government and what was really happening. And most of that didn't shift for me until I went to California, which was a whole different bubble as you'd imagine.

raad: Whole different bubble is right.it's interesting. I feel I grew up in the Middle East during the Gulf War. And then, obviously moved to I moved to Canada in 2004. So it's following 9 [00:22:00] 11. And I experienced the kind of politicization, depolarization andI feel like it's all coming back. it's so awfully familiar.

raad: What's happening, the, the sort of the kind of like aggressive, fascist politics. And that's not just from the right, it's from the left as well, particularly as it relates to foreign policy and the genocide in Gaza, and what's happening. I'm curious, what are you seeing that kind of political action or inaction, inspire, like how is it affecting the music and the culture and what you're seeing on Propeller's End?

brendan: it's been interesting to witness from, I think, like doing this work since 2008 was when I left the band and started working in social impact. And, back then It was, there was a few, there were a few artists that had their own foundations and stuff like Incubus was an early one, Linkin Park, like some of these artists are really big in those years, but it [00:23:00] wasn't common and it was just like, I don't know if this brings about all the, but Pepsi instead of, doing the Super Bowl the one year, they did this whole Pepsi, can't remember what it was, Pepsi, some sort of challenge where they gave away Millions of dollars, to, people with ideas and nonprofits and stuff for all philanthropic purposes.

brendan: And it was just starting to become more and more in the zeitgeist of people were starting, Oh, everyone now has a cause, but it wasn't still the norm. And over the years it became more and more, you get into the Trump era and it just started to be like. I wasn't begging people to participate in things we were doing.

brendan: Like people were looking for outlets and what they could do to support different causes. And then I think really, as you got into 2020. election year, COVID, George Floyd, who knows what else. So much was happening that was, the year that our whole business had to change. Because so much of what we did revolved around, in person experiences with concerts and festivals, and we couldn't do any of that anymore.

brendan: And we're like, we're gonna Go [00:24:00] under, but instead it ended up being our biggest year and it was just being, the sad truth is that like when the more, tumultuous of times we're in, the more propeller has people that want to do things. And so it's like in a lot of ways, good for business as much as I don't wish that in the world by any means, no matter what.

brendan: And it's not what I look for. But, then you go back to, this year, I think that. A lot had changed over the course of the four years. people start to forget about the Trump era a lot. People also start to see a lot of bad things that you're pointing out on the left. And so a lot of artists, I think earlier this year were I don't, I, even if it's nonpartisan, I don't think I want to touch voting.

brendan: as a thing, I think people were like afraid to bet on, on the wrong horse, or even if they don't make it partisan, their fans are still going to assume it's one way or the other, and it's just going to cause unneeded backlash or something. and Our stance on it was like always about the issues.

brendan: It wasn't about a specific candidate this year or [00:25:00] anything like that. It was like, here's the things that we stand for. If you support these issues, like you might, you should probably make sure you're registered to vote or get registered if you're not. And if, and the time, especially with Biden, it's like, if you don't like Biden, that's fine, but, if you care about whatever this issue that you care about, like, let that be your reason to go and vote, and I think things changed a lot, the more the election picked up this year.

brendan: And,people started to pick their sides or whatever, or just wanted to do something maybe because I think certain things were screaming in their face a little bit more and they were less sheepish about it than they were earlier in the year, but,

raad: it's interesting, right? Like, I think politics should always be about what you want, not what you don't want. And that's become the mainstream politics now. It's like, oh, okay. Now, if you don't vote for, if you don't vote for me, that guy wins and that guy hates you. It's such utter nonsense, it's all this energy being spent hating rather than saying, this is what we demand, this is what we want.

raad: And so I like, talking about it this way, the way you framed it is, it's [00:26:00] about the issues, politics and parties should be like cable. Pay for only what you want, this sort of like, Cause politicians are career politicians. It's not like you have a guy who's like, okay, I'm gonna come here for four years and that's it, I'm gonna quit, so I'm gonna, either make as much money as I can, or maybe really try to do some shit, right?

raad: Instead you have these fuckers who are like, multi millionaires, who will never leave Congress, who will, die a fossil and die rich, but yeah, enough of that, mini rant here. I'll come back to that rant later on.

brendan: I'm with you on all that though, I fully agree. It's so frustrating to be in a spot again where it's like, yeah, let's pick the lesser of two evils that we think is the lesser of two evils, and it's like, who really knows? And it's,it's, yeah, just a sad state that's like, that's where we are in the U. S. at least.

raad: and I will say this though, I think we get the politics we deserve. there is something about, what the hopeful thing about all this

brendan: [00:27:00] Silence.

raad: A minimum wage, all this was fought for.

raad: None of this was given. Nothing was, is given. And I think the disillusionment comes from the fact that, oh shit, why isn't it given? But, I grew up in, in first of all, Saudi Arabia and then Bangladesh and grew up with like, Political violence and authoritarianism most of my life, and so I'm not surprised by any of it.

raad: I feel actually hope when people break out of their spells. Where this, I mean, consumerism, capitalism is a spell, really. Above all, it's a sort of a spellbinding technology. This ideology that you can,Consume forever, buy anything, and buying things will solve your problems. It's a spell of all.

raad: So when the spell breaks, there's this liminal space where we have to find a new place, something new to congeal to, or find meaning in. and this is where art and culture is really meaningful. But anyway, let me come back to this point later on, because we're going to talk about what you're doing with Portal now.

raad: I love what [00:28:00] you're doing with Portal, and we'll come back to it.one thing that I want to touch on is that. You were going to go to university or college for computer science.instead you said, fuck it. I'm going to go tour with a band. I'm going to pursue music instead. And your grandfather, I think, is believe, sorry,is involved in this sort of inflection somehow.

brendan: give us a sense of why the quote unquote extreme pivot. Partially opportunity and right place, right time. I think that for me, I wanted to play in a band. I did play in a band. I played in a really crappy band in high school that was my band and I loved it. And, and I like wanted to do that. That's what I wanted to do. I started playing guitar when I was 10 and, I just would love to have had that opportunity.

brendan: I saw bands go that I knew that ended up. making it big and it just felt like that gave me hope and that this is possible and stuff. And soSenior year someone I knew they were starting a new band and like they were light years ahead [00:29:00] of anything I had done in terms of professionalism and quality of songs and all of that and They invited me to join their band like march in my senior year and they had a they were going on tour Actually, like with a bunch of metal bands.

brendan: We were not a metal band, but it was a sold out band sold out tour and so I still was enrolled to go into college and stuff and about halfway through that tour I think it was like somewhere in washington state and I called my parents and i'm just like I think i'm gonna pursue this band Thing instead of going to school and they were scared but they were kind and supportive and they said Why don't you just defer for a year and then every year I just would defer another year and eventually just stopped but it came to a head for me because of um,I think a lot of the attitude for me in my life is Why I go for these things is just because I think during a psychedelic trip when I was in high school I'd like have this memory of lying on the street in my neighborhood with my friends like looking up at the stars and Just thinking about my grandfather.

brendan: My grandfather Was very successful [00:30:00] in his life and he was ran a business and he had a great life I mean he traveled the world he did all kinds of things, but basically he retired Made a lot of money and then five years later he died. And so I just had it in my head since I was in high school that I don't want to live a life toward the end of my life and I'm going to, aim for retirement to be the time when I do all the things I really want to do.

brendan: And so it was like, why don't I just pursue the things that I'm truly passionate about now? And Fortunately, my parents, like I said, they were very supportive and they were scared, but they were like, I couldn't have done it without them allowing me to. My bandmates had very different stories. My other bandmate, like parents were not supportive.

brendan: He had to basically rebel and just go off on his own, be cut off and take a whole different path. Eventually they came back around, but. He had the challenging situation. I, my job, mine was challenging for different reasons, but, but fortunately like supported and, that's really been my mo still to this day with anything career and, I think all [00:31:00] goes back to that feeling from high school,

brendan: What were your challenges and what were your parents, like, what do you think sparked the sort of reaction, like the immediate fear? Where do you think that came from? I think that, I was a decent student. I didn't apply myself that hard, but I think like there was a lot of optimism for me from my family as for what I was going to do in my life and My dad's also a business owner and does well and I could have taken over his business and so if I wanted that path, I could have gone on that path and had something pretty turnkey that No one, I would have been okay financially.

brendan: And, and not taking that path, not taking the traditional path of like, becoming a web developer and probably being able to make a couple of undergrad a year pretty easily, for a while. And, and going into this unknown thing that barely anyone like makes it in, and, not something they knew a lot about either, and, And I think that, I don't know, the challenges are just like, yeah, you're a band in York, Pennsylvania, and you're trying to make it big, whatever that means, it was a weird [00:32:00] time. It was like post Napster, fighting illegal downloads while the labels are going on pre Spotify.

brendan: And so like, no one really knew what to do with anyone anymore. And you weren't able to get record deals very easily. And, we had a lot of attention on us since I was 18, where people would come to Pennsylvania that were. legit people in the music industry. And so there was promise from day one, but it was, a lot of that over the years where it looks like, oh, we're like, we're golden and things are going to happen down to like, that being the same kind of story for six years where like we grew and, had a lot of great opportunities, but never really quite got there, in terms of making a sustainable career.

raad: guys call it? When did you say, okay, it's been six years. I think we're, or I'm tired or like, I want to do something else. Like, what was that? What was that point?

brendan: it, it's any relationship. I think things have been flow and ultimately you love it. And so you're going to fight to stay in it and feel re energized at different times. And so you have those waves. We have band members that leave along the way and you've got to [00:33:00] find new ones.

brendan: And any one of those things can be like, whatever that breaks, the whole thing. And, what happened for me was I got really excited about the stuff I was saying, as far as like how you're going to use music as this vehicle for something positive. And, that idea was just like, I couldn't escape.

brendan: And that also bled into this other idea I had of a company I wanted to start, which was all related to, like fighting, not fighting illegal downloads, but working with it. The whole idea was to create a platform where you could get free music and it was all supported by advertising. And it was like, again, it's pre Spotify.

brendan: I don't know what I was doing, but it was like that idea is what actually led me to wanting to go. Leave the band and pursue that and trying to create that company with a long term goal Of how all of like the cause side of things plays into it and instead I just what happened was instead of making it where like you watch an Advertisement and get a free download you watched an awareness video and you got a free download and I did like a prototype of that [00:34:00] And it went very well and that's like what ended up sending me down the rest of the path and Everything I started doing with before it was like winning these meet and greets and these trips and stuff It was all based on downloads and then spotify came out and you didn't have to you know Money like the money for music thing was not really a good incentive any longer since people could just have everything for 10 bucks streaming every

raad: I mean, everything came full circle, right? You did become a business owner. do you think that there is a. an overlap between being an artist and being an entrepreneur

brendan: Oh 100 A

raad: In what way?

brendan: percent.I think entrepreneurship is extremely creative, and it's like you all, you get no is more than you get yeses for everything, especially in the early days. And you have to, one, you have to be resilient, and two, you have to be creative on how you go around those roadblocks.

brendan: Because if you take no for an answer, you're not gonna be a successful entrepreneur. It just doesn't, like, that's just,there's stories of like, Linkin Park or I, [00:35:00] like, I think they,

brendan: Hundred hundred hundred labels or something. Yeah, Something like that. It was some absurd number that how many times they got rejected. And then they went on to like be this multi platinum artist, but like anyone else who looked at him, like, you guys are nuts, like you're clearly, no one wants you and to go into whatever the 112th time or whatever it was, and then you get a yes, and then you go into be one of the biggest bands in the world.

brendan: it's very similar, but I think that, being an entrepreneur is. I mean, if anyone that's seen Silicon Valley, like, I feel like it's such a good portrayal of the journeys that entrepreneurs go through at any level of success. and so I get a kick out of that and just how it's like, anytime you think of smooth sailing, something else pops up.

brendan: And as a founder or as an entrepreneur, like you went, you didn't go into that line of work because you were an expert in the legal side of it, or, sweepstakes compliance, whatever it might be, you just had this idea and how many things you have to learn along the way. It's really a journey and I really find similarities in terms of like thinking of it as an art form, pretty [00:36:00] often.

brendan: Silence.

raad: benefit or sort of crossover talent, I guess you could say from my perspective between an artist and entrepreneur is that an early stage entrepreneur and artists both have to hone in on that real thing inside the innate inspiration that makes you want to do this fucking thing.

raad: Despite maybe nobody believing in it, nobody seeing it, but you still want to do it. When you want to write a song, when you want to listen to a song, when you want to play music, there's nobody telling you, you're just like, this is something I have to do that inner compulsion to do that thing. And so like every.

raad: Entrepreneur in my mind, every founder is an artist, starts an artist. Where you get into trouble is that at some point you become a scientist because you're more in the act of creation is more [00:37:00] about like replicating and scaling, that's a different problem set, and that's I think different persona, but you're right to, every entrepreneur has to find that inner artist because it's about that resilience and inspiration holding onto that thing, that spark, which you're going to need.

brendan: there are more bad days than good when you're trying to build. Definitely. Definitely.

raad: what do you think, like, okay, so this other question that I have about being an artist or an entrepreneur is that what do you think you pulled from being in a good, in a band and, you played in a band, you guys toured so clearly something was working or you tried to make it work.

raad: What are the takeaways from doing in know, being in a band and then running a company or running a team?

brendan: I think they're very similar to what you were just describing in the resilience aspect of it. I mean, like you're eating shit. If you have a bootstrap company and you're just getting going and like, you don't have all these things, you have luxury to just hire people. And like, it's like you're doing [00:38:00] everything in some instances, at least that's what was the path for me and anyone that didn't like go out and raise millions of dollars to start their company.

brendan: and as a, in a band, like we were, sleeping on floors and just disgusting

raad: big in big, in a van that smelled like fart 24 7

brendan: Yeah, no, I mean, that's it. And like, you're like, you're happy to get a 5 a day. I mean, Grand Swag, 5 a day per diem to go get your stupid gas station burrito or something in the night. It wasn't, there's no glamor in it other than like for the hour and a half you had your show and you, sometimes there's 10 people there, just like, you never know.

brendan: but that still is like your element. Of touring in a day where you have any sort of glory.I mean, I think there's an aspect of that. I mean, as for artists that are a little bit bigger, I mean, there's certainly like, the manager is similar to a CEO and there's the delegation of having your agent book your tour and you've got your, lawyer obviously handing your legal and your publicist and you're The band is your client, but like they're the ones on the creative side of it.

brendan: And your job is to,to [00:39:00] be like the CEO. And so I've seen a lot of parallels and in times where I've worked for management companies and stuff and seeing it from that side of things. and then I think for what I do now, especially in like the early days, I think that I, even though I was a small artist, I still think being an artist, I had perspective to think how artists think.

brendan: And when I'd reach out and ask artists to do things, I felt like I had a better Granted, there's endless personalities as far as, how an artist might think, but generally speaking, I think that there's some through lines and being able to, have that experience of when I was in a band of what would have resonated with me, when I was doing it to get yeses for people to participate in our campaigns.

brendan: I think that's been really helpful as well.

raad: Yeah, that's fantastic. And I absolutely resonated with that, building community myself and, managing a community is like managing a company. The thing is, oftentimes nobody's getting paid in the beginning, at least, and you have to find a way to inspire them to support them and so on.

raad: Let's go to Portal. tell us about what Portal is, the [00:40:00] background of it, and I think, again, Portal to me is really interesting because when we first spoke about Portal, it was this, this culmination to, in your own words, of like psychedelics as a movement, not just as a substance. But then also bringing in elements of culture and storytelling, which is at the core of this, but also experiences.

raad: how do you monetize things like this? There's a lot of experimentation happening and I think Portal's at the forefront of it, in my mind at least. Tell us about what Portal is. What are you guys trying to do?

brendan: Yeah, it's this one's always challenging for me. I mean, I think portal at its core is a psychedelic membership club. That's really what the business model of it is. And that's what we're trying to do is build community. And so we're trying to have people that. whether you're new and you're curious or you maybe had some journeys, but you're not really that well informed We're trying to help you get more informed and also find other people that are also on a similar path to you And so that's really what the community is about but [00:41:00] what we're doing is, so much of it.

brendan: It's driven by what I describe as monthly rituals to turn inward so we are Essentially using Denver as our pilot city and, we are, having monthly events in Denver that are one part psychedelic education,a talk that you might see at a conference, for example, with, a thought leader, a nonprofit person, an influencer talking about some sort of subject within psychedelics, whether it's, Microdosing or just LSD or whatever the, all the different topics with psychedelics.

brendan: The one we have coming up is with veterans. And, and, so we have those talks and then the back half of every event is, more experiential. We say it's a heart opening experience, but typically it's like a ceremony type concert. it's the opportunity really to go inward and, whether you're on psychedelics or not, we don't, Tell you to be on psychedelic.

brendan: We don't give people anything. It's like, to me, it's like, this could be your time every month where you are like, you haven't been meditating. So come meditate in the community of people that are also like care about this [00:42:00] and, are on a similar path. but if you do want to, do you want to do that? You can, and you're in a safe container.

brendan: And just to give you an example, like we've been working on the Veronica lightning horse Perez in Denver. She was a big part of, the movement out there for, legalization prop one 22. And she's, a profound speaker. She's from the indigenous community. She's been hosting our events. And then the first one we did was with, Wesley Schultz and his wife, from the Lumineers. And so he was part of the conversation. He played some songs and then East Forest is also part of it. And so East Forest, did a whole ceremony and showed, his documentary, music for mushrooms. And then the last one we did was with Snow Raven and we had, Kaa come in and do a Kana ceremony and then introduce people to Kana.

brendan: And, so we're doing these every month in Denver. With the intention of then bringing this to multiple cities. And we just see it as an opportunity for people to come learn about psychedelics, find the community, and then have these opportunities to, people in a room lying down flat, eye masks on doing the whole [00:43:00] thing, which is really what psychedelics have been to me in recent years versus going to the festivals or whatever it might be.

brendan: It's really about those inner journeys. And I'm trying to give people the opportunity to again, whether they're on signals or not, to have those moments. So that's a big part of it, but, where it gets to be a mouthful is just, we also are supporting, lots of, the nonprofits in the space. And that's really through what we do on propeller.

brendan: And so to me, it just fits neatly with everything we do on Propeller. We partner with Double Line Magazine. We use a lot of their sort of psychedelic one on one kind of content. And then, and then also support, a lots of different organizations that are in the space, help them raise awareness and money.

brendan: And. To me, it's again, it's like propellers become one of the biggest tools for, big organizations to acquire new supporters. And in the psychedelic nonprofit space, the biggest organizations are not that big and they do not have the same level of sophistication when it comes to what they do digitally.

brendan: And just overall, just cause they're not bringing in [00:44:00] tens of millions of dollars or hundreds of millions of dollars, like some of these organizations do. And so we're applying what we know from working with these groups. To the psychedelic space and really just see an opportunity to really help them reach people that are not just preaching to the choir, but reaching these people who are hearing about psychedelics in the news and are curious about them and trying to educate them and bring them into it in the right

raad: I think this part is, to me, the most impactful thing, right? Psychedelics, by virtue of being underground for so long, I think is fairly homogenous. And, this by no means I mean disrespect to anybody who's like, all the champions who put their life and career and everything on the line. To keep the space alive despite the intense criminalization that have gone through the last 50 years.

raad: I don't mean those champions per se, but I think there's a, insular pressure in the space. And we sometimes fall into this thinking that this is it. And we pat ourselves on the back, but [00:45:00] that's not it. It's a very thin slice of the people out there, who still don't know or they think they know, or they've been propagandized and all this stuff.

raad: So I think broadening the base is extremely important. And so that's what I keep saying. It's not about psychedelics, it's not about the drug. It's about the states of mind that, And Matt, the medicine, the practice allows you to be in toe in that then that's those states of mind is what's political, right?

raad: It's not the drug.and so I really love what you're saying, what you're talking about. with that said, I think a space that is so decentralized, so to speak, and diffuse in some ways. It must be really challenging doing what you're doing. And so I'm curious about what have you learned as key insights in the work, and obviously Portal is relatively new as well, so there's a lot of experimentation left to do.

raad: What are some of the key insights you can share about what you learned from this [00:46:00] process about building or formalizing or building a business in this particular space?

brendan: there's a few things. I mean, I think, it's I have a couple of different directions I could take this. I think that psychedelics are, the overlying mission of what we're doing that we use is saying destigmatizing psychedelics. And so that, that sort of destigmatization or normalization of psychedelics, because, other people talk about this.

brendan: I've, I heard East Forest say this and I thought it was really funny where he was saying like, every time there's something on the news about psychedelics, they're like, here's a trippy story for you. And they play like the tie dye backgrounds or whatever it is. And it's like, that's how everyone thinks of it versus like treating it in a serious way.

brendan: There's, and like psychedelics, of course, there's a silly side to it. that's part of it as well. But it's really deep, meaningful, inner work that can, that happens when people are on psychedelics. And like, it's should be taken seriously in that regard as well. And, and so even when, I've reached out to certain artists, teams or something, and the feedback I get, some of the [00:47:00] first things sometimes is that they laugh, and it's just like, I know you've been impacted in a positive way by psychedelics because your whole last album was about it or whatever it might be.

brendan: This is a really good point. I actually, I'm glad you brought this up because I was going to ask you about this. I found that it's, I found it ironic that more artists aren't part of this. It has become almost like devoid of art in because of this, because like, on one hand, artists are always involved in it.

raad: But is it the language that they don't find? Like what makes it so difficult for artists to be

brendan: I'll tell you what I think my theory is, what my theory is. so I've been doing the social impact work. And as I said, like a lot of this was started because of like, it was influenced by psychedelics and like that's what set me on this path. I was never like an activist, a do gooder, or any of that stuff.

brendan: It just all spawned from this and consciousness. And, and it took me till, I don't even know, three years ago, I guess, is when I, we started Portal. And, I had done, I had never thought of [00:48:00] psychedelics as a cause. you think of the environment or mental health even, and still don't think of, still don't think of psychedelics.

brendan: And this includes like, I started Portal with my friend Justin Beretta. Justin was in a group called The Glitch Mob, and, he's known by a lot of people in the psychedelic space because he had done projects with Ram Dass, these great meditation projects, and Alan Watts, and Eckhart Tolle, these different people, and that Ram Dass, project was something that him and I did together on Propeller, and, we also did Alan Watts one on Propeller, and all of that, and, like, we still never thought psychedelics, and just one day, We're like, why are we not doing this for psychedelics?

brendan: And that was when portal started. And I think that a lot of artists also do not think of psychedelics as a cause. They're getting hit up every day by a different organization. And then there's the ones that are really close to people in music, especially like, like a music cares or, some of these ones that have long histories with artists and their teams.

brendan: so that's what you think of when you think of charity or philanthropy. And I think that. A [00:49:00] big thing that we're going to do and already are doing is like saying, no, you can support Heroic Hearts project or whatever it is, here's a different opportunity. And I think it's gonna be a light bulb for a lot of people because they have had such profound experiences.

brendan: They would like to be a mouthpiece maybe, but they just hadn't thought of it as like, Oh, I can actually treat this as the cause that I'm

raad: Totally true. And is it an accident that this is, this resurgence is happening? As we are on the verge of World War Three, it's not

brendan: I don't think it's an accident. Yeah.

raad: how, again, how crazy is it that I feel like the sixties and seventies have been defanged in a lot of ways and made it about like the frivolous partying, which I think is absolutely important.

raad: I think partying is healing. If you've done responsibly to have done carefully, you've done safely. It was psychedelic movement was a reflection of the insane war propaganda that was happening at that time. It's happening right now and so to your point, rather than looking at as a drug, but we look at as a [00:50:00] tool to open our minds and our hearts to keep it open to keep it open as in everything in the outside world.

raad: There's a pressure to like no fall in line. Do what you're fuckin told, vote the way we want you to, and so on, right? It's not an accident. It's happening for a particular reason, as a response to something.

brendan: I fully subscribe to that. I mean, I think that,I do set intentions and stuff if I do a psilocybin journey. And a lot of it comes down, like a lot of times I'm asking about stuff that I'm doing, portal, propeller, the combination of it. but I say that just, I think that I've had times where I've thought about like, not even wanting to support a lot of the causes that we currently have been supporting for a long time, because I think so much of what's needed in the world is not more polarization.

brendan: It's really this. people, as Ram Dass says, it's like, the greatest action you can do for someone else is to work on yourself. And I really believe in that, that it's like the more we can raise our own consciousness, the more the collective consciousness will get raised. And the more, a lot of these other issues that exist will hopefully, start to go down as well [00:51:00] because people, as you're saying, your heart is open, your mind is open, things from a different perspective.

brendan: And so I think there's nothing more important than, and it's hard to say that when there's, Urgent things that happen, right? There's a school shooting or there's a climate disaster, whatever it might be, that you become very reactive and the world becomes very reactive. But, but I think for me, there's nothing more important than this.

brendan: And it just, it, I'm really excited where I'm at. And I also, it's a weird juxtaposition because I feel this is the moment and I feel like this is the most important work I could be doing. And so it's really where I want to spend all my time.

raad: No, I totally agree with you. And I think the beautiful thing about psychedelics and the medicine and the states of mind is that they're expansive. You can hold all of it. It's not one or the other. I absolutely believe to have peace, you must have justice. But to have justice, you must be at first be able to see and hold.

raad: All the beauty and all the violence that exists in the world. So creating space in our lives is really important. [00:52:00] It starts with us, but then it encompasses everybody else. That's where the beauty is in my opinion. last question. I love where this is going. What do you hope? I mean, I was, I opened the, casually talking about like, we're four days away from Armageddon, it seems like, because, in my mind, every person on this planet should be an Amer should have the right to vote in the American election, because it

brendan: it impacts everybody. Yeah.

raad: everything, unfortunately. and, Give me a sense of like, what do you hope for 2025 for the company, for yourself, to your point, we must have hope. Otherwise, what else is there, right? where do you want to take it? And of course, we're all going back to Denver in June next year.

raad: Where do you want to see all of this go?

brendan: I mean, I think it's a lot of things you were touching on. I mean, I think also I'd say that, another thing I believe is that through any tragedy comes opportunity. And so these things that, you In hindsight, you can look back in hindsight and look at these terrible situations that have happened in the world.

brendan: And how, if that didn't happen, it might not have taken us to a place where it did actually elevate [00:53:00] consciousness and take us to something else happening in the world that is for the greater good of humanity and for our future. And so I'm trying to keep an open mind and an open heart as to whoever goes into office and what might happen because of a result of that.

brendan: And while things might get. Really bad for a while, whoever it is. I'm hopeful that it does what we were just saying. It leads to a place where people are sick of being polarized, realize we're, we're stronger together. We have more in common than we do different and see the importance of things like this, of, being able to turn inward and,how needed that is.

brendan: And just what you said, like being basically being a beacon of peace. And that's my hope. And I, and how we get there, like, I have no clue. And I, again, something really terrible could happen. If World War III breaks out, like, I won't be surprised. I don't want it to happen, but hopefully if we don't destroy ourselves, that leads to us.for those of us still left, but it leads to something much better. for where we go next, because I think we're [00:54:00] in such interesting times when AI and everything else is coming into play, like we're at a really unique time in history in that regard, and we're thinking about all these other things that are so small and so shitty and bad and stuff.

brendan: And we're hopefully getting to a place where crazy transformation is going to happen and things that, you know, if. If hundreds of millions of people lose their job in the next whatever, three, five, 10 years or something, like we're not gonna have a choice. We're going to have to adapt in some way. And, and I could see psychedelics playing a role in us, like dreaming up what the future holds.

brendan: So

raad: Absolutely. I love that. I'm turning 40 this month. I know you recently turned 40 and I feel like the older I get, the more I'm reminded that it's all love and compassion. It's all love as cheesy and cliche as it sounds is cliche for a reason. It is

brendan: I, so I, there's things I've come across the nonprofit world a lot over the years. It's like about kindness or whatever. And I used to always [00:55:00] think that was cheesy. And now more than ever, I'm with you. I'm like, that's not cheesy at all. I can, it can feel cheesy, but it's actually like, it's everything.

brendan: You don't have to agree with people, be kind to people, be loving to people, be compassionate for people. Yeah, and so I don't know. I'm curious what happens. You mentioned, like, next June, Psychedelic Science. I hope that a lot of people come out to that and, it's as successful or more successful as one last time since it is such a,a major time for everybody that's interested in the space to come together and think of what's next.

brendan: I also want to point out that we are doing Bicycle Day again. Bicycle Day for me is going to be something we hope to turn into a major day of, awareness and fundraising for the psychedelic movement and make it a bigger and bigger thing every year. And so I'm really excited for bicycle day 2025 and also what that can be used for in the future as well.

raad: No, I'm stoked for it. I mean, we were lucky enough to work with you guys for the last conference in Denver in, 2020, 2023. Super stoked to be back. And,coming back to one of the core themes [00:56:00] of this, which is got to do what you love and we both love it and we're not going anywhere unless World War III does break out, after all, but hopefully it doesn't.

raad: Brendan, this was a fantastic conversation. Thanks so much for spending the time with us.

brendan: Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me.

raad: My pleasure. Okay. I'm going to stop sharing.